That's a new one. "I disagree with you politically, so therefore your degree is worthless."

Well, his book 'Nietzsche on Morality' is really good...

In the categories, "Toto pulls the curtain aside", and "the answer to too much free speech is more free speech", blogs may just be the worse things that can happen to professors.

Well maybe that's if they have no sense of humor and possess a closed mind.

Leiter is yet another blogger brave enough to criticize others, too cowardly to enable comments. Brave, brave Sir Leiter.

Darn you Josh Marshall! I would admittedly make my comments much more pungent if you would only enable comments at your site!

Leiter is one of the people who fails my 'add to my blogroll' test. Sure, the man's brilliant by any objective test, and often he's worth reading. He's arrogant and treats others like dirt, however, and common decency prevents me from providing him with more of an audience.

Brian Leiter seems to be a cheap shot specialist. One wonders why he doesn't offer specific criticisms of Dan Drezner’s views. Is this too much to demand? Heck, does Leiter even have the ability to go into any detail?

No one see's through the bullshit like Leiter. His site is a treasure.

>>Generalizing from that one sentence to conclude that Leiter's entire body of work is rubbish would be wrong.

Still, that is the way to bet. A cheap-shot specialist in one venue is likely to be a cheap-shot specialist in all venues, and unlikely to be worth reading.

I see no evidence that Leiter is a "cheap-shot specialist" (though perhaps the absent cause here is that he admires Chomsky, eh?), and I find it highly ironical that "bloggers" are complaining about someone being inciteful.

Brad's reasoning, which ignores the conventions of the medium, is highly suspect.

Leiter's an academic of the worst sort--obviously more interested in "academia" and academic hierarchy than in the subject he teaches (he doesn't seem to care about Nietzsche as much as about Nietszche studies, for instance). His Gourmet Report may do some good for undergrads interested in graduate programs, but the obsession with rankings and following philosophers like they're rock stars just makes you want to cringe. He has two particularly bad intellectual habits, BTW. First, his constant claims to universal knowledge -- he'll opine on political economy! philosophy of science! national politics! -- when his training seems to be as a Nietzsche scholar and a lawyer (or law student--doesn't look like he practiced long). I wouldn't mind if he was just giving informed opinions, but he seems to believe training an analytic philosophy makes him an expert in everything. Second, while claiming such broad knowledge, he relies heavily on authority to support his claims. Look at his posts on Strauss--I haven't read much Strauss, and he may be as bad as Leiter claims, but Leiter never really takes him on--he just points to Burnyeat and adds some nasty asides.
And I write as someone with a BA in philosophy... :-)

I find it highly ironical that "bloggers" are complaining about someone being inciteful.

Would that the adjective were "insightful" instead of "inciteful." Then, we might have less to complain about.

What HW said.

Also, what A. Rickey said. Worse, Leiter's self-defense to the charge of nastiness is essentially as follows:
(A) People who criticize his tone tend to be people who disagree with him politically.
(B) Therefore, criticisms of tone are really just subterfuge for ideological criticism.
(C) Therefore, criticisms of tone are illegitimate.
(D) Therefore, there's nothing wrong with him being a jerk. In fact, it's something to be proud of, because he's calling a spade a spade instead of BSing.

People who can't tell the difference between honesty and lack of tact may be smart, but they're not people worth listening to. There are a lot of smart people in the world; why waste time with the jackasses?

You might find it interesting to follow my ongoing debate with Leiter: http://stuartbuck.blogspot.com/2003_11_01_stuartbuck_archive.html#106999589797666649

IMHO, Leiter is a blowhard and a bully, and Dan, who is both bright and engaging, should ignore him. I was particularly offended by Leiter's treatment of Josh Cherniss.

Remeber the maxim of the internet: Do not feed the trolls.

also the maxim of race car drivers: Illegitimate non carborundum.

Brian Leiter is hardly a troll. If you want substance go read his books and articles. As far as Josh Cherniss, he's a nobody, as are the Oxblog boys. Its perfectly legitimate to say this about a blogger who's frequently linked to that 'poses' serious intellectual content. Leiter has achieved the kind of cross disciplinary success that most of you could only dream of. This is certainly to be taken more seriously than a 21 year old whose greatest achievment is merely getting into Oxford and has yet to do anything but run his mouth, fondle books and fantasize about academic stardom.

“Leiter has achieved the kind of cross disciplinary success that most of you could only dream of. This is certainly to be taken more seriously than a 21 year old...”

The only thing which ultimately matters is the persuasiveness of a particular argument. So far, I’m very unimpressed br Professor Leiter. I am beginning to think that he is nothing more than a mediocrity hiding behind his possibly ill earned credentials. Is he an academic fraud who is merely an expert in sucking up to the liberal academic establishment?

Sneering at a 21-year-old for not yet having set the world on fire intellectually seems a bit foolish. If he were 51 instead of 21, it might be fair, but the guy hasn't exactly had time to publish a book, brilliant or otherwise.

All of this bickering over the bickering of academia reminds me of Kissinger's observation, that they fight so hard because the stakes are so small. Really, who gives a whoop?

Brian Leiter constantly embarrasses himself with his incessant name calling, pot shots, and overgeneralizations about the intellectual potential of others. He is clearly obsessed with rank of all kinds, which makes him kind of pathetic. Oh, and he was the only professor of mine at Yale Law School (yes, he visited, and I'm sure they rejected him - but I doubt he would mention it) who gave his students a MULITPLE-CHOICE exam. Selfish, bitter, jerk. That's my impression anyway.

Daniel:

"Brian Leiter is hardly a troll."

RTFP, I did not call Leiter a troll, that would be an disrespectful to trolls. I called him a bully and a blowhard. One reason Leiter is not a troll is that he his not anonymous. Et tu Brute?

"If you want substance go read his books and articles."

Pass, I got important things to do, like go to the grocery store and clean out the basement.

[later note: they had fresh osso bucco so I have to cut this short and cook]

"As far as Josh Cherniss, he's a nobody, as are the Oxblog boys."

That is not what their mothers say. BTW, who are you?

"Its perfectly legitimate to say this about a blogger who's frequently linked to that 'poses' serious intellectual content."

If you can untangle this sytactic train wreck, I'll trash it.

"Leiter has achieved the kind of cross disciplinary success that most of you could only dream of."

And so has Harvey Fierstein. I have been a practicing lawyer for a very long time, maybe longer than you have been alive. I know quite a few law professors and I even like most of them, but envy their sucesses? No, I do not. Those who can do, those who can't teach. Adding a Ph.D. in philosphy to a law professor is like dressing a penguin in a tuxedo. It is redundant, it ruins the tuxedo and it only angers the penguin.

"This is certainly to be taken more seriously than a 21 year old whose greatest achievment is merely getting into Oxford and has yet to do anything but run his mouth, fondle books and fantasize about academic stardom."

The great thing about the internet is that it has opened the channels communication to one and all regardless of things like status and heirarchy. This has been very usettling to those who had climbed to the top of the old pyramid. But, I like it. We are defined by what we say and what we do, not what our titles or ancestors are, and that is how it should be. I respect sincerity, openness and intelligence, but not "authority" or attitude.

Leiter's treatment of people who are younger than he (and yours also) brings him no credit. If is truly wiser than someone else, he should explain the error of their ways, not abuse them. But as I said in the beginning he is a bully and a blowhard. There is no reason for you or anyone else to defend him. He is perfectly capable of being both defensive and offensive at the same time.

Garlic. White wine. Yes. Tomato?

how to respond?

with your middle finger high in the air.

i'm a BA in philosophy considering a PhD, and leiter's blog has gone a long way to disuade me entirely.

It appears that Leiter has taken his whole discussion of Drezner -- and his link to the comments section here -- off his blog entirely.

I wonder why...

Marc we agree I am just wordyer than you.

I used the one small can of tomatos that I found. It worked. Not bad if I do say so myself.

Well, I have a bachelor's degree in philosophy myself, and I thought the President's visit to Baghdad was pretty neat.
I'm sure the White House was aware of the political capital to be gained; however I also believe that anytime a prominent politician (like, say, the President of the USA) does a good thing, a RIGHT thing, political gain will result. This was a good and a right thing. The troops were pleased. The Iraqis were pleased (at least most of them, based on what I'm reading). I was pleased. Whatever political points are scored are deserved. Just enjoy.

I went to grad school with Brian. He had solid, no-nonsense views on Nietzsche, and was good at discussing those views even with people who disagreed with him. But I quickly gave up trying to talk politics with him. He never outgrew his red diapers and refused even to consider the possibility that there might be intelligent, good faith grounds for conservative or libertarian heresies.

Still, he could be quite entertaining. He could also be quite nasty. Sometimes both at once. Unfortunately, his blog leans toward all nasty all the time. I find it increasingly painful to read.

Brian Leiter is hardly a troll. If you want substance go read his books and articles.

...which is an implicit concession that there's no substance to his blog. Which was the point here, really.

As far as Josh Cherniss, he's a nobody, as are the Oxblog boys. Its perfectly legitimate to say this about a blogger who's frequently linked to that 'poses' serious intellectual content. Leiter has achieved the kind of cross disciplinary success that most of you could only dream of.

Whoop-de-doo. Idiocy is no less idiocy if it happens to come from an accomplished person.

Statements must be evaluated on their own merits, and not based upon the resume of the speaker.

It is the sterotypical view of practicing lawyers, most of whom believe that law professors exemplify the maxim: "those who can, do, those who can't, teach."

Robert's maxim is especially popular with the lawyers you see on billboards and local television.

Ironically, Brian himself always used to express a fairly low opinion of legal academia. He frequently observed that intellectual standards were much lower and tenure much easier to get in law schools than in philosophy departments.

I had Leiter for Evidence too, just like our Yale boy, and you know what: he gave us a multiple choice exam, just like every other Evidence prof did here. Now I can understand them giving multiple choice exams to us hicks here, but, heck, did he really give one to you pretty boys at Yale? He must definitely be a selfish jerk. I can sure understand why you're pissed.

Chun:

They build really big houses, fly private planes, and buy professional football teams. There are lots of people who think the academic world, and creeps like Leiter, just plain silly.

Why are you assuming I'm a male? The use of the belittling "Yale Boy" title suggests that you have an inferiority complex, by the way. Perhaps you learned more than Evidence from Mr. Leiter. What's in the drinking water at the law school there anyway?

> Robert's maxim is especially popular with the
> lawyers you see on billboards and local
> television.

Wow, what a crushing rejoinder. It reminds me of the deep, substantive critique of Daniel by Brian Leiter that occasioned Daniel's initial posting.

Hmmm.... how to respond?

I think the proper response to a philosophy degree is, "Sure, I'll get the 'Super Size'. And no mayo on the burger."