Gee, a whole 3 months! Haven't we had about 29 since the first one?

Sounds pathetic to me. But if it works, I'm going into the "protection" business, too.

Of course, when bin Laden says, "with the withdrawal of the last soldier from our land," the words "our land" probably mean Spain and any other land ever held by Muslims at any time since Mohammed. Does France have a Charles Martel, Jr.?

BinLaden's playing from a busted flush.
If he had anything, he'd not be trying to negotiate.

I realize that most of us fortunate enough to live in democracies have memories the size of postage stamps, but within this past month we have seen terrorists offer Europe a "deal they can't refuse", have that offer accepted, and renege on it INSTANTLY. Surely, surely, surely, not even the most spineless of Eurotrash could treat this as credible (she says, desperately, knowing she will be proven wrong momentarily--sigh)?

Europe (Britain, Italy, Spain, Germany, France) has passed on the offer. In French, Spanish and German this means that negotiations will begin shortly.

That is just so ridiculous. I'm surprised this got any media play. It's as if a serial killer had tried to get a truce with the cops. Of course, they're going to say no. The suggestion that there was a shred of a chance that any nation would negotiate is deeply offensive and stupid.

First time that I saw this item on the news, I thought it was a joke. The nobody in their right mind would accept this kind of deal.

I pondered this dubious offer all morning and here is what I came up with. Of course all European leaders are going to say no way. The problem comes AFTER any potential AQ attacks on Europe, when the electorate turns on any incumbent who said (correctly) f* off Bin Laden. A few grief-stricken family members shouting on tv about how the PM/president has innocent blood on his hands and...well, you can all fill in the blanks. BL is bypassing the leaders of Europe to "bond" with the people directly, who are generally speaking terrified to death of him. This is a way of saying "I can pull the plug on your government at any time." That's just massive power.

It is irrelevent posturing, as usual. As ch2 said, no European government is even going to dignify this with an official acknowledgment, other than a snear (or possibly a snare).

"That is just so ridiculous. I'm surprised this got any media play. It's as if a serial killer had tried to get a truce with the cops."

Or like if the unabomber had offered to stop bombing if some major publications would publish his manifesto!

Yeah.

I have to add that his timing was perfect, intentional or not.

Headlines Iraqis will see tomorrow:
"Bush and Sharon Make Up, Make Love"
"European Community Condemns Jew-Lover Bush"
"bin Laden Condemns the US/Israeli Alliance; Offers Truce to Europe"

Or like if the unabomber had offered to stop bombing if some major publications would publish his manifesto!

No, like the unabomber offering to stop bombing if the government would remove the cops from his state.

Dear Bithead,

Please remember that Fareed Zakaria along with a slew of others were sneering at how weak Alqueda had become because of the relative ineffectualness of its Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc. bombing campaigns that were a PR blowback.

Then came M-11 and the fall of Aznar's government which while it could not be foreseen by the terrorists was certainly provident. It made all those commentators arguing that Alqueda was "on the ropes," look insipidly stupid.

Now, the conquer and divide bit was crude, ham handed, and completely insincere. However it was also good theartre. Now you see bin Ladin playing his hand as threatening the West, and forcing them to publicly deny any such collusion instead of just treating it as laughable as would have happened before 3-11 in Madrid.

This then comes out at the very same time just abouts when the US is having a PR disaster in Fallujah in the Arab press, and Bush is giving Sharon everything he could dream of practically on Palestine. If you don't think Fallujah is having a very bad affect for our moral authority, consider Odom former NSA director under Reagan say how being in Iraq is pretty much were Saddam wants us.

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1837816

Bin Ladin is playing to the Arab Press, regaining a lot of lost legitimacy and street cred, and you can just bet that with the surge in activity we have multiple Alqueda franchise cells working on different fronts to try to produce another spectacular that bin Ladin and al-Zawahiri can gloat and boast about to take credit.

Let's face facts. Spain set us all back, and the damage is only beginning to be calculated. Iraq is digging us even deeper into the hole.

While I've maintained that the military is not overstretched in general, I have to admit that the specific kinds of units being deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan are being severely over-tasked. Listen to Barry McCaffrey and you'll hear he comes to the same conclusion.

As I pay closer and closer attention to OBL and the reaction he brings I have to agree more and more with a post I read either here or on another blog. Everyone, governments, military, analysts and civilian have seriously underestimated Bin Laden. For everyone here who is saying this is a stupid offer you need to realize that he is not thinking in terms of a conventional war. As Oldman said, he is trying to gain more followers etc. Simply put, Europe refuses and the ARabs feel more attacked, therefore they will become more defensive and aggresive.

The western world as a whole is failing to try to understand the Arab mindset, they are not ignorant backwaters people. They are intelligent, educated, have a lot of pride and feel like their countries and lives are coming under attack. Remember how Britain viewed us at the start of the Revolutionary war, rough, uncivilized etc. We fought for our ideals, countries and beliefs and won.

What I do now everytime someone dismisses OBL's tactics, I remember four of our own planes crashing into our own buildings. He attacked us on our turf and won a major battle, he is not simple. Reading what I have seen of his speeches he is quite educated and well spoken. He has a better command of his language than our current leader does of English. This cease fire is part of a larger plan I guarantee it. Remember also, we have been in Afghanistan for almost 2 years looking for him and his higher ups, how many have we found and have we got him?

Please remember that Fareed Zakaria along with a slew of others were sneering at how weak Alqueda had become because of the relative ineffectualness of its Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc. bombing campaigns that were a PR blowback.Then came M-11 and the fall of Aznar's government which while it could not be foreseen by the terrorists was certainly provident. It made all those commentators arguing that Alqueda was "on the ropes," look insipidly stupid.

Not particularly so, no. Yes, the strikes were effective, but against very soft targets!

And, think now...at what cost? BinLaden knows he can't keep this up long. I said at the time this was the "cornered dog syndrome". A cornered animal will be at it's most vicious, but it's generally a sign they haven't got a whole buch left, and after a short stint of violence and yes, even inflicting some damage, possibly serious, they're all done.

Darned sneezing fit...

Anyway, when one knows one can't keep up the level of attacks for long and get anything, one generaly sues for talks. THat's where BinLaden is at the moment.

I note the EU has finally grown something of a spine, and won't take the bait.

And three cheers particularly for the Italians, BTW, who ahve apparently shamed the EU into standing up to OBL.

Life in Iraq

http://truthout.org/docs_04/041504C.shtml

Oldman,
Let's face facts. Spain set us all back, and the damage is only beginning to be calculated.

Please explain. I hope you're not calling up the ridiculous appeasement argument.

Re OBL's hatred for the UN: He's against the UN principally because of its backing for the US liberation of Afghanistan, but also because it supported the liberation of East Timor from Muslim rule, and probably because of GW1 as well.

Oldman,
"Let's face facts. Spain set us all back, and the damage is only beginning to be calculated"

Au contraire, Spain has done more to advance the WOT with it's current policy than they ever did when they were with the good guys.

Their appeasement policy has already failed,better they be the test case; nice and close to France.

I know this thread is all but forgotten but regarding my other post:
"Europe (Britain, Italy, Spain, Germany, France) has passed on the offer. In French, Spanish and German this means that negotiations will begin shortly."
3 days later, Zapatero has just said that he's going to get his troops out ASAP. Cobarde.

MarkAA,3 days later, Zapatero has just said that he's going to get his troops out ASAP.

So much for our informed American youth. Try to bend your mind around this: Zapatero said he would do so a year ago, and reiterated that promise during the campaign. He had also allowed an exception, if the UN took over the Iraq occupation by June 30th, which wasn't to be.

Ch2, I just checked my calendar, and as near as I can figure, June 30 hasn't passed yet...

Zapatero's action yesterday is indeed a change from his campaign, and a further appeasement to alQ. His original statement was that he would order withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq on June 30 if the UN, or another "suitable" international organization, had not taken control of Iraq by then. He reiterated this to the Spanish Parliment last Thursday. Yesterday, he unilaterally(!) concluded that the UN is incapable of controlling Iraq, and on that basis ordered the immediate withdrawal. Now consider, not only what that says about the current Spanish government, but also what it says about what Europe really thinks of the U.N...

I'm waiting to see how long it takes before Spain announces the withdrawal of its troops from Afghanistan, and its taking an officially "neutral" position in the WoT.

Cousin Dave,
yes it was an early withdrawal, but otherwise you manage to be incorrect on vitrually every point. I'll quote from a Reuters article to debunk your fact-challenged account.

...indeed a change from his campaign, [no it is not] and a further appeasement to alQ. [preposterous drivel] Yesterday, he unilaterally(!) [wrong(!)] ...concluded that the UN is incapable of controlling Iraq [that's not what he concluded] , and on that basis ordered the immediate withdrawal. [sigh, wrong again]

(From Reuters)
"Zapatero said he was making good on a longstanding campaign promise to bring home the troops unless the United Nations took charge there politically and militarily by June 30."

(ch2) The planned US handover on June 30th remains only a political handover.

"He said he took his decision so soon because consultations with U.N. and world leaders showed there was no way a U.N. mandate meeting Spain's conditions was possible."

"Officials said the new government made its announcement on its first day to avoid being drawn into a debate and to avoid possible complications in the field. They said they did not want any future event, like a hostage taking or the death of any soldiers, to be used to misinterpret Spain's motives."

"Mr. Zapatero said Sunday that "driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government cannot and will not act against the popular will or behind the backs of the Spanish people." Earlier, in his inaugural speech, he had told Parliament that no Spanish troops would be deployed without parliamentary approval."

(ch2) That's what democracies do. We sure could use one in the US.

I'm waiting to see how long it takes before Spain announces the withdrawal of its troops from Afghanistan, and its taking an officially "neutral" position in the WoT.

Waiting for Godot indeed. I'm surprised that with your track record at describing the past and present, you'd venture into describing the future. I bet you are also predicting we'll find those WMD yet. LOL !