Friday, May 7, 2004
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Ethnic cleansing in Sudan
The Sudanese government is aiding and abetting the killing of African Muslims in its western Darfur region. According to Bloomberg:
This looks like a job for the U.N. Human Rights Commission!! Oh, wait...
UPDATE: The Economist has a nice story encapsulating the Sudan problem.posted by Dan on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM
"Our report covers particular villages in one small area,'' said Rone. "The killings are much more widespread.''
The liberal media have no interest in Sudan unless either Israel or the United States can be blamed for these horrors. Is there any way that you can place the blame on Ariel Sharon or George W. Bush? If not, they could care less. To highlight the Sudan tragedy would inevitably lower the respect many have for the United Nations. Needless to add, this would help President Bush and hurt Senator Kerry? End of story.posted by: David Thomson on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
The Third World is much more concerned about killings by the West than by one of their own. The African countries have no interest in condemning another African country; their attitude is "you may be a bastard but you're my bastard." In fact, I'm sure this story will eventually be attacked as evidence of the West's "double standard" or a racist attempt to slander African governments.posted by: MWS on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
Moslems kiling moslems?
How do we go about engineering a few more genocidal civil wars in the Islamic world? Have them eliminate themselves, without us having to get our hands dirty or spend our money.posted by: bart savagewoofer on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
The hypocrisy shown here is just plain sad.
Dan: blame the UN.
Dan, David, MWS: Are any of you clamoring for a US military intervention ? No ? Good enough for the Iraqis, but not the Sudanese ? Please add your names in the blame box, won't you.posted by: ch2 on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
First of all, Islam is a religion, not a race. Criticizing it is, thus, not racist.
When I was younger I believed the liberal intellectual line about all religions and cultures being equally worthy. The I visited a few moslem countries, and a few soon-to-be moslem countries, like France, the Netherlands and England.
Islam wants to rule the world, much like the Soviets did, and must be resisted with as much vigor as the Soviets were. Would it be a better world if we could all just get along? Certainly. But there are some people with whom there can be no getting along, due to those persons' absolutist, "all or nothing" worldview. I wish a global holy war was avoidable, but it don't think it is.
Maybe you want to consign your grandchildren to a new dark age, but I don't. I'm not a christian, but a modernist westerner who appreciates and enjoys things like freedom of thought, speech and movement, a vibrant market economy, 500 channels on TV, 100 different types of ethnic restaurant, bookstores with a million different titles, and the ability to say unpopular things without fear of losing a hand (or a head.) I don't want those things to surrendered to Allah.
Internal strife will probably be far more destructive to Islam than the liberal, civilized west can ever be, which is why it is to be hoped for.posted by: bart savagewoofer on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
Alright, but the proper term for someone gleefully anticipating the death of innocents escapes me at the moment.
Islam wants to rule the world, much like the Soviets did, and must be resisted with as much vigor as the Soviets were.
Alright, back it up. How is a religion that is essentially decentralized trying to rule the world ? I'm curious. Expand on it and not just with some feeling you have but with some facts about how they are going about it, what their methods/plans are...
Would it be a better world if we could all just get along? Certainly. But there are some people with whom there can be no getting along, due to those persons' absolutist, "all or nothing" worldview. I wish a global holy war was avoidable, but it don't think it is.
You're welcoming WW3 because of some thousands of terrorists ? Or are talking of something else ? You know that there Christians and Jews with all or nothing world view, who believe you and I are going straight to hell.
Maybe you want to consign your grandchildren to a new dark age, but I don't.
You were doing so well, and then you had to go there. Yes, I want to consign my grandchildren to a new dark age (sarcasm on full blast). If you sought to insult a father, you succeeded, but I say "shame on you".
Internal strife will probably be far more destructive to Islam than the liberal, civilized west can ever be, which is why it is to be hoped for.
Stop living in fear, my friend. There is no scimitar wielding horde of Moors trying to kill you and your family. There are some 1,000s of deranged lunatics who will try to attack Western and US interests here and abroad, but they are no more representative of the 1,000,000,000 Muslims than Tim McVeigh and hundreds of other plotting lunatics are of the 200,000,000 or so American Christians.posted by: ch2 on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
Quite simply, I think we're all wrong on this. This is simply ethnic cleansing, nothing to do with religion. The Sudanese do not like the "darkies". This isn't an Islam thing, as much as David Thompson would like it to be, this is just Arabs who don't like blacks. In my mind this is one of the tragedies of Iraq. We could stop this if we had a division to dispatch, but we don't. France has none; they are all in the Ivory Coast. England has none, they are in Iraq. Germany has none, they are in Afghanistan. Spain has none, they are socialists. The West has failed. I don’t know the answer.
The U.N. has none, like the pope in WWII. Plain and simple, the west is out of troops. There are plenty of soldiers in places like India, Japan and South Korea, but due to how their current National Law and International Law is laid out, they will never deploy. This is a failure of the U.N, and a failure of the US and the West to lead.
We desperately need Asian forces in Africa and the Middle East. South Africa is the only nation that is even capable of responding in the region, and they have their hands full with the Congo and Zimbabwe. Let’s face it, because of Iraq, we shot our wad. Local genocidal leaders are taking advantage of it. In the Congo, in Liberia, in Haiti, and in Sudan, they realize we are weak. We are.
“This is simply ethnic cleansing, nothing to do with religion. The Sudanese do not like the "darkies". This isn't an Islam thing, as much as David Thompson would like it to be, this is just Arabs who don't like blacks.”
I find it interesting that niucons desires to put words in my mouth. The reality is that I think their opinion is probably correct concerning the Sudan horror. I essentially agree with it. Muslim nihilists like Osama bin Ladin are notorious racists. This is something that Daniel Pipes has mentioned numerous times. They truly despise black people. Please note Bin Ladin's indiffernce to the deaths of black Muslims during the two African embassey bombings. The liberal media downplays their racism likely due to the tacit understanding that only white people can be racists.
“Plain and simple, the west is out of troops.”
This is only because the older Europeans, Canadians, and other welfare state nations are parasites. They refuse to do their part and instead mooch off the United States and Great Britain. These self centered folks deserve our contempt.posted by: David Thomson on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
Daniel wrote in all his wisdom:
To expand that a bit further, yes it would be an excellent job to discuss this directly with a Sudanese representative. But the useless US representative walked out. Apparently he had to spend some time on how to defend a bit of torture and other violations of the Geneva conventions. Bunch of silly cowards those US diplomats. Too scared to take up their seat in a human rights commission.
That is ofcourse what Daniel ment.posted by: UN rules on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
This wouldn't be happening if the Israelis weren't oppressing the Palestinians.posted by: Alex Bensky on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
Quite simply, I think we're all wrong on this. This is simply ethnic cleansing, nothing to do with religion.
Much in the way that the ethnic clensing that took place in Bosnia had nothing to do with what happened in Croatia or Kosovo.posted by: mig0 on 05.07.04 at 12:30 PM [permalink]
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