Nice one-sided selection of links, Dan, when you had the entirety of freeperville to choose from.

Max Sawicky

Ezra Klein

Stirling Newberry

Kos

Steve Gilliard

Jane Hamsher

Uh, right. For 15 years no one, including not a single of the so-called "liberal" MSM outlets, dug into the Abramoff/Delay/Rove network and the rumoured $2 billion financing behind same. Nor did anyone so much as question those $50,000 golf trips to Scotland. Until an actual murder made things so hot even the Gonzales Justice Dept couldn't ignore them anymore.

But Mr. Markos participates in a mailing list and helps set up (but doesn't run) an advertising network, and suddenly 8437 articles about "far-left blogola" pop up on every political web site in the US and Europe.

Any coordination there, Mr. Drezner? Did you receive a fax from Mr. Rove today? Abramoff going to pay you for planting this article?

You find those questions offensive? Well, yeah.

Cranky

I'm rather dissapointed in you Mr. Drezner. Although I've somewhat followed the rather dismissive NYT and WaPo coverage of the Kos convention, this morning's Kos post on the TNR claims is the first I've seen of wider allegations of "petty corruption." I can't verify them because at this time (0737 CDT 6.22.06) the TNR website has been slashdotted (or Kosed -- prounnoucned Coased; rhymes with hosed) no doubt by the virtual torch and pitchfork wielding mobs of the liberal blogsphere.

That said, I haven't seen anything to date that rises above two guys trying to make a living and create a marketplace of both ideas and currency out of liberal commentary on the internet. Since when does free enterprise and innovation equal corruption?

I think that once people look at the actual record they will see that what Moulsitas and Armstrong are doing are leveraging new media into a new form of political activisim (and for them political careers, but again, what's wrong with that) that threatens the business interests of folks like the New Republic.

Isn't it just a *little* funny to you people to flash the "fax from Rove" line when you're in the middle of dealing with an actual email among liberal bloggers telling them to keep a lid on a story to protect one of their own from embarassment? Of course there's nothing wrong with it, but it's beyond hypocritical to accuse the other side of doing what you're doing and painting it as though it were something wrong. Ronnie Earle call your office. I thought hypocrisy was the only sin left to the left, well, other than not being one of you.

The Democrats already discovered the "culture of corruption" meme wasn't going to work because they have just as many hands in the cookie jar as their Republican counterparts. See e.g. Rep. Jefferson. You guys are funny.

I will try again, without the snark. I am not really accusing you, Dan, or defending Kos & Armstrong. I have no dog in that hunt, or have even studied the stories much. And I realize we may swim in different in different streams of the blogosphere. It is simply that Kaus and TNR have little credibility on the left side, and are viewed as hostile. Joyner is ok, and amazingly, NRO is seen a decent competitor.

Sorry. I lost my temper.

Bob,
Zengerle accused Jane Hamsher of being on the take for not writing about a topic during a period while Ms. Hamsher was sitting next to her unconscious mother in an intensive care ward. It is unclear why you would need to apologize for your comment.

Cranky

Cranky, Dan is not a denizen of freeperville.

That word came up as I was trying to google for opposing viewpoints, and saw how many right wing sights were featuring the story. Nor are Kaus and TNR the equivalent of Powerline and LGF, and the left blogosphere's hostility toward them might be a story unknown to someone who doesn't hang in the left blogosphere.

I was apologizing to Dan.

...the left blogosphere's hostility toward them might be a story unknown to someone who doesn't hang in the left blogosphere.

I can't speak for dan, but the impression I have is that the left blogosphere is basically unfriendly-if-not-outright-hostile to anyone who isn't part of the left blogosphere.

A lot of the vitriol coming from the right to the left is a reaction to that perception.

Hey...that's *Dr.* Drezner ...he didn't spend 4-5-6 years in that hell hole Palo Alto to be *Mr.* Drezner.

Atrios sums it up:

=== Since "having a friend who works for a campaign" is apparently the new prima facie standard for evidence of corruption in Washington, it would actually be nice if journalists spent some more time tracking the chain of money and jobs in Washington - campaigns to consultants to lobbyists to media figures and around and around - to untangle the genuine financial conflicts of interest which rule that town. ===

I must protest: Palo Alto is not a hell hole.

"A lot of the vitriol coming from the right to the left is a reaction to that perception"

Whatever. I try not to troll, and save my vitriol for display in my natural sinister habitat. Dr Dan can node out where he likes, and I am by rule not a party-crasher. I provided links specifically because I did not think Dr Dan was being intentionally partisan or biased, and hoped to help by going places I would not expect him to go. Can't read everything.

As far as the specific topic, Democrats have never been an organized political party, and Kos and Armstrong are aware they are trying to herd cats. There is some hostility out there, my own included (I object to Armstrong working for Warner), toward the very project of trying to organize the left blogosphere. Part of it might be a misplaced residual resentment in the left-o-sphere toward the DLC and DCCC, who are nearly loathed.

Although it is too early to tell, if the ten biggest blogs or whatever become co-optated by the MSM or political establishment the rest of the vast blogosphere may turn on them like Maenads on Orpheus.

You're right cwp, more like a beige limbo. We Southern Californians refer to Palo Alto as 'Irvine North.'

I cancelled my TNR subscription 4 years ago, but they were once a great magazine that employed great writers.

So in that spirit, I hope they now have the decency to apologize, in public, on the web and in print, personally and corporately, with abject sincerity.

Cranky

TNR have little credibility on the left side

Bob, I'm fairly sure you read more blogs than I do (I basically do not read the activist blogs, and of course there are many of the wonk-side liberal blogs that I don't read either), but I'm not sure that's right. Things TNR writes about blogs have little-to-no credibility, and everything Martin Peretz writes has anti-credibility. After that, it's a continuum. For instance, Spencer Ackerman is widely acknowledged as one of the best guys on what's going on on the ground in Iraq, Foer is well liked, Chait is well-respected even if people disagree with him all the time, etc. People who write for them outside of their staff, especially on legal issues, are good.

Matt asks, Who owns The New Republic?

I apologize as well. Dr. Dresner it is. I'll stand by the rest, especially in light of Cranky Observer's link. It is interesting to note though that Chris Bowers, who wrote that post commenting on an American Prospect post chooses to use "Right Wingers" to describe what the AP clearly spells out to be (mostly) conservative democrats.

I'm not a big fan of DLC and Lieberman-esqe politics and policies, but I do call bullshit on the shrillness on our side. It is one thing to strenuously defend yourself (as I think Kos is doing) from some pretty serious accusations, but it is another to pile onto everyone who doesn't toe the progressive-netroots-blogsphere party line. I can't stand the thought that in order to beat the neocons and Republicans we have to become more like them.

"Uh, right. For 15 years no one, including not a single of the so-called "liberal" MSM outlets, dug into the Abramoff/Delay/Rove network and the rumoured $2 billion financing behind same. Nor did anyone so much as question those $50,000 golf trips to Scotland. Until an actual murder made things so hot even the Gonzales Justice Dept couldn't ignore them anymore.

But Mr. Markos participates in a mailing list and helps set up (but doesn't run) an advertising network, and suddenly 8437 articles about "far-left blogola" pop up on every political web site in the US and Europe."

Kinda like how we when third world countries are oppressive, or Al Qaeeda murders people, its a yawn, but if the US govt asks for data on calling patterns its a dictatorship, or if we humiliate a prisoner its shame for page 1. Remember why that is? Cause we, and NOT they, are making the case that we are the free, democratic side, and thats central to what we are doing in the world, and why we expect people to support us. So if WE do even a fraction of what the other side routinely does, it IS big news.

Same thing here. Nobody on K street is running around about theyre revolutionizing politics, bringing it back to the people, cleaning up the corruption that not only the GOP, but those nasty, corporate friendly Clintonian sellouts did.

Kos calls everyone else a sellout. Joe Biden is a sellout, cause he voted in keeping with the ineterests of one of the largest industries in his state. Etc, etc. Well, then, if thats what youre all about, you need to be above suspicion. And Kos isnt. The emperor has not clothes. Rant about Drezner and TNR all you want, but thats the way it is.

"everything Martin Peretz writes has anti-credibility"

ive been reading Marty Peretz for years, and hes said some excellent things.

I'd like to add my apology to those upthread. I haven't actually said anything on this subject yet, but I might decide to later, so I thought it would be a good idea to get the apology out of the way now.

I can't speak for dan, but the impression I have is that the left blogosphere is basically unfriendly-if-not-outright-hostile to anyone who isn't part of the left blogosphere.

That's because "You're either with us or against us" is bad when the president says it, but good when a blogger says it.

You're either with us or against us is outstandingly stupid, no matter who says it.

That's because "You're either with us or against us" is bad when the president says it, but good when a blogger says it.

That explains so much about where the leftie blogs are coming from that it's too true to be funny.

hat's because "You're either with us or against us" is bad when the president says it, but good when a blogger says it.

Yup, it makes perfect sense to hold a blogger to the same standards as the President.

[ Although I agree that that line is pretty stupid in any case]

Oops. Glenn Greenwald now reporting that Steve Gilliard did not send any e-mail to the "secret blog control list" with the text as printed by TNR.

Sounds as if they may have another broken Glass incident on their hands...

Cranky

Wow. Read the whole thing, as they say. Heh.

=== [...] Let me explain something: presenting something false as something real and attributed to a person is a firing offense. This is not a game, If he was misled by a source, he deserves the chance to prove it. If he just pulled it out of his ass, I expect Frank Foer to fire him
because this would be the third major breach of ethics for TNR. Before I lead a charge to ruin a life, I need evidence I was done a wrong, and I can't say that exists yet. It may not. It may.

But as of now, I can't say either way.

That doesn't mean I am not appalled at the sloppy, underhanded and unprofessional way this was handled. If you are going to accuese people of being corrupt, they need a chance to respond. If you're going to quote me, and imply something, you need to ask me what I meant. This all could and should have been done.

And it wasn't. ===

http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/

Steve Gilliard is on a roll:

=== Kos can't even order people on his own site around, much less a variety of people on different sites. The idea that he could order people silent is a joke.

As for the pay for play allegations, most border on a tort. First, Armstong never wrote,as far as I know, for Kos. Kos hasn't worked as a consultant in two years. So how does paying Armstong benefit Kos?

This is sloppy reporting on the level of Wen Ho Lee. Charges with no basis in fact. And here's why: Kos is a minority voice on his own blog. One of the charges the NRO dug up was that there was a slant toward Sherrod Brown. Except for one thing, the Paul Hackett partisans were all over the place.

No one recalls the brutal fights over voter fraud in 2004, because it isn't convient.

The idea behind this smear campaign is to scare pols away from Kos and his community organizing. Joe Lieberman is the victim of this, and this scares people ===

http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2006/06/about-organizing.html