Dan, Noblesville, IN is one of Indianapolis' northern suburbs. I've been there, though not for a few years, and can testify that it looked as if families with children would find it perfectly lovely for all the reasons you mention.

To paraphrase Screwtape, only a clever human can make a real Joke about Noblesville; any of them can be trained to talk as if Noblesville were funny.

I'm single and densely-populated urban areas are at the bottom of my desirability list. Affordability and crime are two big issues. Traffic is another - I don't want a daily commute where my thoughts are repeatedly trained on the words "Evasive action, Mr. Sulu!" - which (aside from distance to job) is why I live in a Dallas suburb and not Dallas.

I've never been able to understand the snobbishness about suburbs from urbanites and country bumpkins alike -- unless you ascribe it to jealousy that we happen to live in a place that avoids both the inconvenient isolation of the country and the sheer barren ugliness of every city constructed by mankind.

I live in the city and love it. However, I'd NEVER send my child, if I had one, to an urban public school. Most of my co-workers with children live in the 'burbs primarily for that reason: There are good schools.

Semi-affordable they may be but they can also be sterile and lifeless, with anomie and alienation as the result.

Sadly, the kind of urban environment I grew up in simply doesn't exist any more. It was blue collar and seedy (and doomed) but everything, including the library, schools and movie theaters was within easy walking distance for a kid. Then, there was the corner store. Now the nearest convenience store is a mile and a half away,

In those neighborhoods, friends and relatives lived close by. So, it was a safe place to roam without hovering parents and the logistics of play dates and the like.

I used to love the sound of the neighbors strolling from house to house and gossiping on front porches of a summer evening.

After WW II, veterans took out VA loans and moved to the suburbs as soon as possible, and who could blame them? By the time I got out of college, the old neighborhood was pretty much gone, except for one or two widows hanging on in spotlessly kept houses.

So, materially, we're certainly better off but I miss the sense of rooted community.

Semi-affordable they may be but they can also be sterile and lifeless, with anomie and alienation as the result.

Don't forget false consciousness and commodity fetishization! Shibboleths lose resale value if you break up the set.

The sterile, lifeless suburb I grew up in didn't have hovering parents or play dates either. I don't know where those things came from but it wasn't suburbanization. Anyone who thinks he can get away from them in Portland, Austin, or Boulder is doomed to disappointment.

Noblesville, Indiana: Indianapolis suburb (Colts), low property taxes and decent public schools, moderate state plus local income tax, safe, parks, youth soccer programs. Why wouldn't it be a decent place for families?

When baby boomers were little, their parents did not take them to upscale, adult-oriented restaurants and expect everyone else to think it was completely normal. And in the family restaurants they did go to (on rare occasions, since eating out was a treat), children were also not expected to "express themselves" in public by screaming, hitting diners in the next booth, and generally making their presence painfully known. That's why we give you dirty looks. That goes double for R-rated movies. Maybe your children are little angels and you would never take a two-year-old to see Traffic rather than hire a babysitter, but a lot of other parents are out there creating expectations of the worst.

Tell me if I understand properly. Suburbs contribute to the breakup of community because they increase isolation. If population density is a benefit to thriving communities, then apartment communities should be pretty vibrant. But my experience is that they're deader than Katie Couric's ratings. There must be other anti-communitarian forces at work.

I've been puzzled by the idea that suburbs are somehow less preferable for a single's POV than a city. Having lived in Chicago during the 90's and in it's NW suburbs for most of the 00's - my own experience is that there are few barriers to interaction that suburb critics cite. Yes - having a car is essential, but even in the city, not having a car made it almost impossible to get a date - unless you dated a co-worker and met after work.

My biggest complaint about suburbs is not the alleged isolation - but the waste of time and money on lawncare. I've never had a green thumb - but the sight of seeing grown people spending their entire weekend trying to grow just the right shade of grass struck me as absurd.