But Ireland (and even Northern Ireland) has had democracy for nearly a century. The fact that the IRA still persists (albeit weakened) after so many decades, after so many political actions (e.g. recognizing Sinn Fein) is a reminder of the limits of democracy in fighting terrorism.

While DD's attention to matters Irish is commendable, he's slipping up on the outsourcing beat:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111032118130773908,00.html

(page A19 of the Wed paper edition)

You seem to be underthe mistaken impression that the majority of the pro-Syrian proterstors were from Lebenon. More, you seem to be thinking that if given the choice the Lebanese would vote to Keep Syria.. and indeed, Hezbolah, there.

Neither is correct.

Janak, you could equally argue that events in Northern Ireland show the drawbacks of addressing terrorism via the "roots of terrorism" approach. The political role given Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland, including a policing role and ministries, including education, has not been sufficient to see off the IRA. But neither crude idea - that democracy always withers terror (Spain, anyone?) or that terror has roots in poverty/nonrepresentation, really sum up the province's situation adequately.

While strictly speaking it's not terrorism, an obvious parallel can also be drawn to the rebel armies in Central America. Although years have passed since "peace agreeements" were signed in Guatemala and El Salvador, armed bands of former rebels (and former soliders too) continue to roam the countryside and cities in both countries. In Guatemala which I know quite intimately, they essentially traded guerrilla movements for armed banditry and narco-trafficing. In many instances the same guys are holding the guns.

James -- I agree to some extent. When such old hates are resurrected, then practically any response short of complete extermination is likely to fail.

On the other hand, the economic argument is probably still somewhat valid. What has led finally to an improvement of the situation in Ireland is the growth of the Celtic tiger, giving young Irishmen in both parts of the island a stronger incentive to learn Java programming than learn how to build bombs.

Kent -- a similar mechanic also holds in Ireland. I've read that the IRA dabbles in smuggling, bootlegging and the like as well. Isn't that how La Cosa Nostra started too, as a national unity movement ?

Compare also the Basque ETA. The literature shows a disjuncture between the conditions that might prevent a terrorist movement from starting in the first place and conditions for ending the terrorist threat once there's a band of armed hard men. The terrorist organization takes on a life of its own that survives changes in the political sentiment of the surrounding society.

I have never read an example of where democracy
stopped terrorism. I thought terrorism was just
a tool someone used to obtain a goal.

How would democracy block the terrorism tool?

Thanks for posting on this story; I've been beating the trash can lids on the McCartney murder for about two weeks.

All of the studies that I am familiar with place La Cosa Nostra as filling an economic niche or political vacuum. I have never seen it linked to the Risorgiomento.

It's great to see this story get some pickup in the US, and words from GWB are welcome, but only one thing will actually convince the IRA to stand down: Irish Americans, their longtime loyal supporters, telling them (however reluctantly) that it's over.

That means convincing them without demonising them. The influence of the demagogues of the Irish American 'establishment' on US policy towards Northern Ireland is shocking, when you consider that otherwise semi-rational people like Pete King (R-NY) or Jim Walsh (R-NY) trust Gerry Adams more than their own president.

"them" that need convincing being Irish Americans. Sorry.

For me, it seems like the question is whether the terrorist/criminal organization in question is actually destabilizing (FARC in Colombia, the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka) or just a tumor in the body politic (a la the Mafia in the US or the IRA in Ireland.)

You don't want tumors, of course, but they don't kill you immediately.

The other question is what agencies fund the terrorist organizations. The FBI could eliminate a great deal of the funding for the IRA just by closing some of the bigger Irish pubs in San Francisco, which are unapologetic fundraising machines. Just walk in, sit down, shut up and listen -- you'll be amazed and revolted by what you hear.

The problem here is that terrorists learn certain skills -- killing people, collecting money for operations, avoiding the police, scaring folks, drafting radical manifestos -- that do not go away merely because there is a Democracy. If you have learned how to be good at being a murdering thug, and can earn a living at it, why are you going to stop? (If you have rationalized killing for your cause, I am not sure a mere change in governmental system is going to persuade you to stop.)Democracy is not a short-term solution. It is a system that can attack the pathologies that cause people to become terrorists. (Paging Mickey Kaus and Rudy Giuliani for additional solutions.)

Of course, the Bin Laden types tend to eliminate themselves. They may disappear more quickly.

The problem here is that terrorists learn certain skills -- killing people, collecting money for operations, avoiding the police, scaring folks, drafting radical manifestos -- that do not go away merely because there is a Democracy. If you have learned how to be good at being a murdering thug, and can earn a living at it, why are you going to stop? (If you have rationalized killing for your cause, I am not sure a mere change in governmental system is going to persuade you to stop.)Democracy is not a short-term solution. It is a system that can attack the pathologies that cause people to become terrorists. (Paging Mickey Kaus and Rudy Giuliani for additional solutions.)

Of course, the Bin Laden types tend to eliminate themselves. They may disappear more quickly.

I started writing a long comment, but threw it out because I don't really know what I'm talking about here. But examples like this make me think that maybe Kerry wasn't too far off when he was talking about reducing terrorism to "nuisance" levels (though it was still stupid politics). Truly eliminating terrorism may turn out to be no more possible than eliminating disease. But representative democracy and good government will minimize terrorism, just like working sanitation minimizes disease.

Why IS there such vocal support in the US for Sinn Fein, given their alliances with America's deadly enemies?

The IRA has been caught training FARC. They were running around in Lebanon like lice under a rock (according to notorious neocon Robert Fisk) when the Marine barracks was blown up and met with Hezbollah under Iranian auspices afterwards.

Libya armed them with the explicit objective of seeking revenge for Reagan's bombing of Tripoli. They continue to cozy up to Castro.

Anyone active in Irish politics finds them as the most fanatical and bitterly anti-American force there is.

Never mind their guiding vision of an "Irish Socialist Republic" - a Cuba without the palm trees.

What the hell are these people thinking? Some may be just as anti-American as Gerry Adams is, but not all, surely?